Carrie Marie, Clothing Designer

We saw the sign. Then we walked in the door.

Smaller cities. I've always been drawn to them. Albuquerque, Baltimore, Iowa City, some of my favorite dots on the map. Add to that list of often-overlooked but humbly memorable places, Knoxville, Tennessee. A cousin's wedding in eastern Tennessee lead me to Knoxville, and a good friend, one Ms. McKenzie Michaels, hosted me during the non-family time. After some research, I decided I wanted to check out the Market Square area for the few hours I had on day 1, before meeting up with my folks. McKenzie and I had a big smile over both wanting to go to The Tomato Head, a local restaurant with unreal pesto, a vibrant staff, and hep art on its walls. In our late-afternoon daze, brought on by good food and the surreal opportunity to catch up in person, we walked around Market Square. For those playing at home, it's something like the ped-mall in Iowa City, or downtown Northampton. We spotted the word Indigo hovering in a store window, above a display of spunky women's clothing. We figured, why not check out this place. I joked about McKenzie dressing up, pretending like I could afford to buy her an outfit. We have jokes like that.

Once in there, we could tell that we wandered into something else. Sure there are countless women's boutique stores, and having lived in the Laguna Beach and Boston/Cambridge areas, I've seen more than my share. But Indigo doesn't barrage you with its cornucopia of styles and cutesy store music. Nor does it resemble the austere boutique where everybody whispers, and the clothing feels overly fragile on tiny, metal hooks. There was a dress with a dogwood print on it (my favorite tree, these days). Garrison Keillor and company were basking in the Knoxville warmth, via the radio. The lady behind the counter was making flower-and-button thingamajigs we would later learn were hair pins. She looked like someone you would want to run into at ye old twenty-somethings party. Obviously warm, with suggestions of being stylish yet unpretentious, animated yet at ease. We naturally fell into a conversation. About twenty minutes in, I figured it would be the right time to bring up the blog and the possibility of recording and sharing our afternoon. She was into it, and neither the tone nor the topics changed.

Carrie Marie,25, has worked at Indigo for a couple years, and is now at its helm. Once a boutique for up-and-coming designers from all over, it has transformed into a co-op focusing on work by local fashion and craft artists. She is just as excited about other people's work as she is of her own Red Cadence Clothing line. When I notice her Random Notes line of jewelry (with diy, hand-drawn labels), she brings attention to the other jewelry in the case as well, with wide eyes. But Carrie isn't only a busy manager and clothing designer. I'll let you find that out yourself, by inviting you to jump into that room in Market Square, Knoxville, on an early evening Saturday in June.

Bartering

Carrie: Jeans are like the only thing that I have to buy in big stores. I have to break down and buy something that’s made in China. But other than that, now that I’ve been sewing, I just buy stuff from stores [like this one]. And a lot of girls that make stuff in here, we’ll make stuff for each other. I started bartering with the girl that does my hair. I want to start bartering with my tattoo artist [big laughs all around], it costs so much.
CE: Tattoos seem to be big here. I thought it was just over there, or a big city phenomenon, but I’ve seen so many people here with tattoos.
Carrie: We have a really great shop. Saint Tattoo. All the people in there were members of the rockabilly crowd. Because of that, I think it was kind of known early on that they were all good artists. There’s one woman there, now, who does my stuff. She, you know, does sketching, and all her work is really great.
McKenzie: Can I see your tattoos?
[Carrie shows us the tattoo on her back.]
McK: Oh, wow. That’s so beautiful.
Carrie: She drew that for me, because I wanted a microphone with teeth. Such cool teeth! At some point I want to get it colored in, but it costs so much money. Bartering!

When I had a fashion show in March, she was in it. It was really cool, I had like a sorority girl and my tattoo artists in my fashion show! I had sizes 0 to 18. We did it at LOX Salon in Old City. The girls there specialize in more funky haircuts. They do all kinds, like crazy coloring, but they also do more natural coloring, too.

The Ahhh Mode

Carrie: Before I had a baby, I used to work at a call center. And I used to take my sewing stuff there, so I could send my work here. After I was about five months pregnant, I got sick of that place really fast. I was like, “I’m never going to work anywhere corporate again.”
CE: What’s the name of your baby?
Carrie: Rose. Rose Marie. She’s very strange and interesting. She just started giving me kisses, it’s the coolest thing ever! I love how she gives me kisses. She just goes, “HMMmmmm!” [makes face and puckers lips, kissing the air ecstatically]. That’s just the most amazing thing: when they learn how to do something new. I don’t know why it’s amazing, and I don’t know what our fascination is with small things. Everyone has a fascination with small things. Anything small and childlike, we automatically go into the “ahhh” mode. Everyone. So, you’re still recording? I feel bad, I could talk all day.
CE: No, no. That’s the thing. The whole slant of it is conversation. As is.

My eyes wander over to a bag by the counter. Beaded all over, black and metallic gray. A clutch bag, as they would call it.

CE: That is a cool bag.
McK: Dude, that is such a cool bag and I could not believe no one has bought that.
CE: That’s so interesting, too, that s/he is pricing it that cheap.
Carrie: I mean some things amaze me, when they don’t like sell for a while. And it’s like, “What in the world? [Whispering, with a questioning look on her face.] Are these people crazy?” Well, I think one of our problems is we’re not actually on the square, like we’re on the side, so it’s hit or miss if people come here. Not a lot of people know ‘bout it. No one knows that we have kid stuff. I try to tell people, “We have kid’s stuff. It’s really cool!” And a lot of people don’t know that we’ve gone all-local now.

[To McKenzie] I really like your skirt.

McK: Oh, thank you.
Carrie: Sorry, I know that’s random. It’s really cool. Is that knit? It’s like bunching up.
McK: I got I at this um [looks over at me].
CE: Saver’s.
McK: Yeah, I got it at Savers, up in Worcester, Mass.
Carrie: Is that a thrift shop?
McK: It’s a junk shop.
Carrie: Do you ever go to AMVETS? It’s off Magnolia. It’s such a diamond in the rough. The best thrift store I’ve been to in my life.
McK: AMVETS?
Carrie: Yeah it’s called AMVETS. Every single time I go in there I find cool, vintage stuff. And even stuff that fits me. And that’s like, rare. Because back then, not many things were made any bigger than size10, in the 50’s and 60’s.
CE: Cool.
Carrie: This dress, I bought it there and completely reworked it.
McK: Oh, that’s gorgeous. Oh wow.
Carrie: You know you’ll never find that fabric now. Isn’t that the coolest thing [points to dress]? Such a cool design.

McKenzie’s eyes move to a newborn/toddler onesie with three roosters printed on it, displayed along the wall.

McK: That’s so cute!
Carrie: I got Rose three of those from my friend who does the prints. These first ones that she had, she got on super clearance at Target. She’s taken the money that she’s made and she’s going to buy onesies that are organic cotton and American-made. By getting these and making money, she’s going to buy them in bulk, so they will actually be the same price that these were in target. So, that’s really wonderful.
McK: I love it [looking at one with a single rooster]. I think that’s my favorite one.
Carrie: They’re eight bucks. I mean, eight bucks is a lot for onesies. They’re perfect for baby showers, giving as gifts. It’s one of those things where I wouldn’t be able to afford it for Rose, but if I were buying it for someone else’s birthday party-- it’s so worth it for someone else.

Music & Two Old Friends

CE: It’s so great to hear Prairie Home Companion. When you travel, you forget what happens in the real world, again. “Oh yeah, it’s Saturday, time for Prairie Home Companion.” And they listen to it in California, Knoxville, Cleveland and Boston.
Carrie: Everywhere you go. Well, I listen to NPR in here. Then, the different girls bring CD’s in sometimes. It’s kind of one of those weird things, that I know this is getting very mainstream, but I’m obsessed with Gwen Stefani. And I have been ever since I was 14.
McK: It’s hard not to.
Carrie: She’s amazing. Like, she’s a very cool inspiration. She’s actually a decent person. She’s not gross. The fact that she started working with hip-hop influences in her music, she came from a ska background, and mixing that is so cool. She still tells people, “I was into Madness.” I remember when I saw them-- I was actually 14-- one of them had on a Madness shirt. That’s what got me into two-tone ska. Then I started collecting two-tone records, and now I have a lot. I like to collect.
CE: Do you remember Save Ferris?
Carrie: Yes, I do remember Save Ferris. I love Save Ferris.
CE: I used to work with Monique [Powell].
Carrie: She seems like she would be a really cool lady.
CE: She was the coolest person. It was more than 10 years ago. I started working really young. I worked at a museum, and we had this gallery in the mall. She worked at the gallery site. We would hang out all the time: make fun of customers and dust shelves. And Matt Wong from Real Big Fish, because they were dating, would come over. She wouldn’t say he was her boyfriend. She was like, “We’re going to go eat ice cream. We’ll be right back.” It was funny, because this was around when Save Ferris started. And then she quit the job to go tour with this band and I’m like, “I hope she does well. I don’t know.” It was one of three things she was doing. She was doing opera too, and she was in a Frank Zappa style noise band. Save Ferris was just the thing she liked doing the most. And then they got huge the next summer.
Carrie: I love them, I love them and I love the Dance Hall Crashers. I love that stuff. I really liked the bands who wanted to be a two-tone band, like the Slackers.

Rainbow vintage fabric and trim
dress by Colleen Louise.

Indigo Design Co-Op & Independent Businesses

CE: There’s such a good environment in here. Even walking by it, it looks interesting. It’s inviting, the way it opens up. I mean, if I had a girlfriend, or if I were a woman, I would come here all the time.
Carrie: I’m really glad you say that. We just recently rearranged it in here and before we rearranged it, it was really bad. We used to have this big, huge rounder in here. I think when we paint, it will be even more inviting. I think the cream on the walls is too bland in here. It’s too close to white, for a shop. We’re going to do like a butterscotch color. I think that will be a really nice background. It will bring out the clothes more. And did you guys see the fitting room? There’s a chair in there for men and toys for children.
CE: Can you tell the story of how you started working here, how it fell into your hands?
Carrie: Yeah, yeah. I started working here about two years ago. When I started working here, it was like a boutique with smaller designers...who didn’t quite hit the mall yet. We started out in Old City, then moved up here. I was in here one day with my husband and I was like, “Man, I could make that!” I was one of those people, where I’d go “I could make that, I’m gonna try that.” I went over to my grandmother’s and my grandmother was like, “Well, let’s start sewing.” And I was like, “Let’s start sewing.” We made the dogwood skirt. My grandmother and I sewed that. Then Tony, he does screen printing, printed the dogwoods. The pearls on the inside of the dogwood are fresh water pearls.
CE: Wow.

"Well, let's start sewing!"
The dogwood skirt, made by
Carrie, Tony, and Grandma.*

Carrie: I wanted it to be really nice, for our first piece. Make it a real work of art. I brought that in here, and Chris and Rob were like, “Bring whatever you want in here.” I started bringing more and more and more stuff, it did really well. And then about a month ago Crystal-- we were in the car together-- she was like, “How would you like to take over Indigo? Start it out as a co-op. Get more designers in there.” I was like, “Yeah, of course! I would love to,” you know? As long as we could, as long as we could get it all together before school starts. So that’s been our main goal, to get enough artists working in here, and taking shifts. When school starts I could still manage it, I’ll still take my shifts. But right now, I’m in here four days a week and I can’t be in here like that when school starts. We have three seamstresses in here. We’re about to have four jewelry designers start working in here.
CE: Do they get a bigger percentage if they work here?
Carrie: They do. Basically, when you start, you just get your clothes in here. Whatever you want out of your clothes, you set that price, then we multiply it times two, to sell it. That helps us pay the rent, bills, taxes and all that. If you work in here 2 shifts a month, a shift could be 4-5 hours, then you get 60 percent. Once a week is 65%, and twice a week is 70%. 3 of the girls are actually wanting to do the twice a week. That’s going to help us a lot!
CE: And maybe one late night a week?
Carrie: Usually on Friday nights, I stay late, as long as I’m not going out. People come over here after they’ve had dinner, or after they’ve gone out. Someone who has some money that they want to spend on something comes over here, that’s a sale and that helps us pay our bills. This is the only way I make money, when I’m not in school. I get grants when I’m in school. This is the way we’re paying our bills. And advertising, regular advertising costs so much.
CE: I could imagine.
Carrie:We did an advertisement in the Metro Pulse for my spring fashion show, and the girls at LOX helped me with it . Just for an advertisement that big [points to ad in the Metro Pulse), it was 500 dollars. So we each put 250 on it. It was a very small ad, but everyone gets the Metro Pulse. And my fashion show was packed. It was the place to be that night. It was the first event I’d ever held. So it made me feel so incredible, that people actually came out to it, you know?
McK: It’s so amazing to have made it. You have your clothes, and now, a fashion show, that’s just amazing.
CE: And you have a co-op, locally run store.
Carrie: Yeah, this is really amazing for us.
CE:. Do you know about the Local First movement?
Carrie: No, I don’t know about that. I know about the Craft Mafia.
CE: It’s a way to link people together. There’s a national organization, BALLE. They help you start your own local first organization in town. A lady I work with, she is an Executive Producer for the organization in Cambridge. She does really great welded metal jewelry, too. She made a directory of all the local first companies that wanted to be in this directory. That directory is all over Cambridge.
C: That’s really cool.
CE: It gets people into the businesses, and you’re part of a group you really believe in. They all have a sticker on the window that says Cambridge Local First. It makes all these smaller places that people didn’t really know about bigger, because they’re listed next to the ones they’ve always gone to. And then there's the ones they’ve always gone to, but didn’t put two and two together and realize, “Oh, this is a local store!” There’s this place, Harvard Book Store, that’s been there since the 30’s, and you don’t think of it as a local bookstore, because it’s got a fancy name. But even they got more people. Then, you could become part of this national movement, so if you have questions about this stuff, you could ask someone else who’s further in the game about how to do it.

You mean you don't have a Tattoo
Flash Purse by Forbidden Fruit
Curiosities? What is your function?

Taking Care of Things: One Mother, One Baby, One Planet at a Time

Carrie: Do you guys live on your own? It’s rough. I was the best budgeter, before I lived on my own. Then rent, TV, gas. Like gas, how much is it where you live? It’s outrageous. Like 3 dollars a gallon. I’m not going to walk here, it would take 3 hours. I’m not going to ride a bike because everything is so bumpy.
McK: It’s not really a bike-friendly city.
Carrie: I remember I went to like Boulder, Colorado. There were bike lanes. I had never seen them before. “What is this? People can ride their bikes here, and not get run over?” I just drive here. We don’t have a train, you know. We’ve got a bus system, but it’s not a great system yet. I want to take it to school and back, but they don’t go out to Pellissippi. Which is pretty lame, or I would take the bus every morning.
McK: It’s strange. A lot of people go to Pellissippi.
Carrie: I know. I thought about writing someone. I talk about these things, I write about these things, but doing them is another thing. I have mama brain, still, so I’m like a lunatic.

CE: How old is your daughter?
Carrie: She’s going to be 1 on June 10.
CE: Mary Rose?
Carrie: Rose Marie. Cool kid, cool kid. She makes me crazy, but she’s really cool. I’m very proud. I had her in Birth Center, so I had her completely natural. It was hell, but it was wonderful. And I’m weaning her right now. I thought about nursing her until she’s like two, but I’m already at the point where I’m going crazy. I’m wanting my body back. We went out last night to The Faint, then I was like, oh, well I think I want to get her because I’m nursing her. This year, we’ll get to leave her overnight. We can go to like Asheville, and that will be cool. Do you ever go to Asheville?
CE: I’ve never been, but a friend of mine stayed there for a summer and I’ve just always wanted to live in the other side of North Carolina, in Chapel Hill.
Carrie: It’s like a bunch of hippies, and a bunch of rocker kids. It’s so cool.
McK: I’ve only heard good things about it.
Carrie: My husband and I are vegan, so there’s plenty of places that we could eat there. He’s a great cook, but sometimes we just want to go out and have a nice meal. They have a fancy restaurant in Asheville that’s completely vegan. I forget what it’s called. I’d never seen a high-end restaurant that’s completely vegan. Most places are hippy-run, which is cool, but not for date nights, you know?
CE: Do you know that book, How it All Vegan?
Carrie: I love that book.
CE: Also, there’s this place in Allston, a part of Boston, called T.J. Scallywaggle's.
It used to be a vegan and non-vegan pizza place. Now it’s a vegan-only pizza and subs place.
Carrie: Yeah, dude, a vegan pizza place is so awesome! Most of my friends that stopped being vegan and are just vegetarian now they’re like, “I just wanted pizza.” Make it at home!
CE: Well, that's the thing. They’ll be in Philly. My friends are going down there and starting a T.J.’s. They have shows there and stuff. And everything there, hopefully soon, will be run sustainably, on other oils.
Carrie: That’s so super cool that they’re doing that. There’s one restaurant in Asheville called Rosetta’s Kitchen. They donate all their leftover oils to be turned into bio diesel, to help out, which I think is very awesome. If I could afford it, I’d convert my car. At least I have a really small car that gets really good gas mileage. I always feel really bad. Like today, we have alerts on the highway like: “don’t drive too much”. Our air quality is bad today. I saw one this morning and was like “Shit!” I was driving, making it even worse. Great, I feel good. What could you do, you have to get somewhere.

A version of the popular satin
dress, for the people on the radio.

Chocolate Crushed Satin Dress Close-Up

A partiuclar dress keeps peaking our interest, and after collective "ooh’s” and "ah's," I finally lay it down on the counter and ask the artist about the piece.

CE: I want to ask you about this dress.
Carrie: Yes.
CE Well, I’m not in the store:, what is this dress in front of us? For the people on the radio, I mean, on the other end.
Carrie: Okay. For the people on the radio, this is like a chocolate crushed satin dress. The lace on the inside of it, I don’t know what kind of waist you would call this, but it hits at your real waist. There’s an elastic black lace in the middle of it, that cinches it up and it’s vintage lace that my grandmother’s best friend gave me, out all of her old scraps. And the two buttons in the middle are vintage. And the fabric is just amazing. These dresses look great on everyone. It has no sleeves. Um, I put it at 98 dollars, and that’s basically because this fabric is 4 dollars a yard. Sometimes I like to work with higher—and I consider that a higher end fabric. Most of the fabrics that I buy are a less than a dollar a yard, cuz it’s what I can afford. This dress, this shape is so popular. I made some of these over the holidays in tops and dresses, and they flew. You could easily use that fabric as wedding-type stuff. The dress is really cool because it’s one of those things where, it really looks high- end. I think it looks like it costs a lot more than what I actually priced it. I try to do that, anyway, make things that look like they cost a lot more than what I actually price it at.
CE: Definitely. They look like they’re wearable, like you would wear that. They don’t look like something out of a painting that you wouldn’t wear, this abstract piece.
Carrie: Like in Vogue? You know, I love Vogue, but man, some of that abstract stuff is completely unwearable. Here’s what’s so funny, you see stuff like that, but then you see stuff like the wee jackets, the mini jackets. My husband thinks I’m crazy to own one, but they make sense. Because sometimes [points at belly], this part doesn’t get cold. It’s my arms that get cold. I thought they were kind of clever. If it’s really cold, you want to put on a jacket. If it’s breezy outside, you want to warm your arms. The wee jackets are really cool.

McKenzie takes a wide-eyed look at a bouquet on a wrought-iron chair. The bouquet is made up of hair pin flowers. Before we waltzed in, Carrie was making them at the counter, while Garrison Keillor was keeping her company. One hair clip in particular makes McKenzie's smile sharpen up a little.

Carrie: You could have a hair clip, if you want. I end up giving them away, all the time. When people who have a lot of money, I end up charging them. I put the little ones in Rose’s hair. Rose has like, hardly any hair, but she’s got this twig of a thing on top. I’ll put a hair clip on it, sometimes.

A bouquet of flower-button thingamajigs.

Tony

CE: Do you know that band? Too bad they just finished being a band, but I think you’d really like Pretty Girls Make Graves.
Carrie: Tony proposed to me at a show of theirs in Denton, Texas. He proposed to me on stage in the middle of their show. Yeah, there were tons of people there. I was so into them. And he had it all set up with them.
CE: Oh, my gosh! That’s amazing!
Carrie: I know, and I heard that they weren’t going to be a band any more, it’s pretty sad. Tony told me like yesterday. They have one member that was in Murder City Devils. I love them so much, and I never got to see them live.

Carrie takes out her phone to check her messages, to see if Tony has called, and gets a great idea.

Carrie: Let me show you a picture of Rose. [We see several and get the stories of each.]
McK: She’s a cute little bugger.
Carrie: these are my crowning moments.
Mck: She’s a happy little baby.
Carrie: She is. She’s very animated it, and I hope she stays that way. She’s really fun. I wish she was here, so you guys could meet here. Tony’s got her today. I’m really glad, they try to do it once a week, try to have a dad-and-baby day. He works so much. Even though I come in here and work at times, I technically consider myself a stay-at-home mom. I’m really blessed that Tony is such a good dad. Because a lot of people, as soon as they have kids, the guy runs off or something. DON’T EVER DO THAT TO ANYONE!
CE: No, no. I’m not getting married for a long time. And I wouldn’t walk out on anybody. I find, it’s everywhere, every class, every background, so often, the father isn’t there.

Looking for that etc. gift? How about headbands
for our heads and light switches for our rooms?
Light switches by Beyond Pink n' Blue.

Etc. & Byes

Carrie: Have you guys seen YouTube?
CE: They have great video blogs. There’s a really funny one called Hope is Emo. It’s a fake blog. It’s a comedy thing, but she’s so serious about it.
McK: The emo one? It’s funny, it’s funny.
Carrie: Anything that has anything to do with emo is probably funny. Tony was talking about doing a fake emo band. I mean, seriously, he told me some of the lyrics they’d written. It was really good. I was like, “Man, you could get on the radio with that crap!” I mean, it’s amazing, what gives you your fifteen minutes of fame. I need more than that, though. Well, I don’t need it.

Speaking of minutes, I check the time. We have to leave the Indigo Design Co-Op and Market Square, and head on back to the airport to meet up with my folks.

CE: We’ve gotta go because I have to meet my parents at the airport. So.
Carrie: It was really neat to meet you guys. I’m going to close up in a few minutes. It’s really dead out, for some reason. I guess me and Tony will probably go home and watch a movie or something on our TV. I love me some cable. It’s really exciting for someone who never had it as a kid, you know? We’ve had it for like a year. But it’s really good to meet you guys. You guys have been really cool.
CE: And we’ll be in touch.
Carrie: Make me Myspace friends.
CE: And we’ll write back and forth.
Carrie: And McKenzie, you’re close to me. We could hang out. Tony and I usually get to go out at least once a week, like late night dates. And I’ll keep you informed on cool things. You have to go to Detroit Cobras with me. Well, you guys have a good night. I’m going to close soon, and later on, we could all get in touch.
McK :Bye!
CE: Bye!
Carrie: Bye! [Hugs all around.]

Walking back to her car, McKenzie and I were still reeling from wandering into a great store, meeting a sincerely driven and passionate woman, and enjoying a refreshingly surprising afternoon. When do you get to walk into a store and leave after genuinely hugging the owner? McKenzie also picked up a rooster print onesie for her new friend Marleigh, to boot.

CE: Wow.
McK:Yeah.
CE: Yeah.

* Unless otherwise noted, clothing and accessories designed by Red Cadence Clothing and Random Notes Accessories.

Web sites:
myspace.com/redcadenceclothing *Carrie's clothing site.
myspace.com/indigoshop * Indigo's site.
Links to Knoxville independent designers found in "My Friends" sections.

* Become their myspace friends. It would be really, really cool. *

Carrie and Tony, designer-artists, muses, &
co-conspirators. Holding it down in Knoxville.

Dan & Lindsay, Lovers Enjoying the Park

Dan & Lindsay
(sans bad photo of a guy I know).


Dan & Lindsay, Lovers Enjoying the Park

Sunny. The early spring evenings come to you with a confident balm. To a place like New England, they say, "It's going to be alright. You've suffered long enough without genuine sunshine and its sometime promise of unquestionable warmth. " When these days happen, you see people basking in them. Reveling. Remembering what it's like to walk around with a smile instead of a wind-chiseled scowl. Games are played in fields, people not only smile back but foster smiles, and anything you went through in the winter shall thaw, you say to yourself. Friday of last week was one of those days. I wandered over from my gallery job to Boston Common, essentially to bask in the warmth, take in the refreshing rushes of park people in their spring-mind, and finally, to lie down in the grass and not think heavily, not plan perpetually, and not finish some project.

I guess I'm something of a romantic; though, you'd think by 2007, we could come up with a better word for it, no? I'm a ragamuffin child (by way of Simon and Garfunkel), a wide-eyed flaneur (by way of Walter Benjamin and in this case, Louis Sullivan), a seeker of, in this case, warm fuzzies. Be careful what you ask for. While sitting on a bench, enjoying the polyphony of conversation and foot traffic, I noticed a resolute experiment in early-evening photo-taking (during what's called "the magic hour" by cinematographers) that a man and a women were engaged in, by the fountain. They didn't quite look like tourists. Their attempts had the focus of a pair on a mission, while their behavior was raw play, at almost-sunset. As I am apt to do, I went over and asked if they were visiting from out of town, and if they wanted their photo taken by me. They explained that they were locals, and that they were enjoying doing it themselves. However, once I came over, it was hard to leave the two-part harmony and syncopated rhythm of their voices. They had that stay-a-while-and-talk look in their eyes, and so I did. After a few minutes, I explained this site and asked Mr. Dan and Ms. Lindsay if I could press record on my technological dickey-doo, and they were all for it. The conversation was the perfect sorbet to a week of hoping for spring. Their togetherness was a wonderful antidote to the sometime-feeling of being (as Claire Danes once sighed it into our lexicon) a failed heterosexual. We had a good time explaining, suggesting, declaring, wondering. Talking and playing.



* Note: I have done my best to translate the musicality (accents, syncopation, melody) of the couple's way of talking. The accents and other notations are there for you to better hear the focus and play in the telling. The explanation of action is there for you to imagine our evening with more clarity (there was obviously more laughter than noted). Let me know if this works, as I will be experimenting with elements like these from time to time.


I. Hello's and a Little East Coast Swing

Dan: Give us the questions. Just turn it on. Let's start. I like it.
CE: Boston Common, by the Park T stop.
Dan: By the Titan Fountain.
CE: April 20, 2007. Dan and Lindsay. They're engaged.
Dan: 6:49
CE: They're still engaged at 6:49.
Dan: 6:51...
Lindsay: We're going to have to see.
Dan: We're going to have to see about that.
Lindsay: Moment by moment.
CE: How did you two meet?
Dan: Swing Dancing.
Lindsay: Swing Dancing!
CE: Swing dancing. Where?
Dan: Brown University Swing Club. The "other" swing club.
CE: It's called the other swing club, or is there like one and...?
Dan: Well, Brown is a liberal place.
Lindsay: It could mean, you know, the naughty, experimental swinging. Or it could mean the dance club format of the 40's.
Dan: We were doing the vertical swing.
Lindsay: Yeah. It's great. We still go.
CE: Where do you guys go? Ryles?
Lindsay: Nowadays? To MIT, actually. They have a club there.
Dan: It reminds us of the good old days. Where it's just a bunch of people coming together, dancing. A little less cliquey. A little bit more open. People are still learning so they're still having fun. They haven't taken so many classes that the fun has been mashed out of them.
[CE & Lindsay laugh.]
CE: My friend went to MIT, grad, and met his wife there. Through the ballroom dancing classes.
Dan: But we don't ballroom though.
Lindsay: But yeah, it's funny. I didn't get into dancing to "meet people," but it definitely, definitely can happen.You find couples on their way.
Dan: You told me you got into dancing to meet me!

II. School, Love, Etc.

CE: what did you study at Brown?
Dan: I was a medical student. She was...
Lindsay: I was studying international development.
Dan: Now I work internationally, and the romance continues... on a multinational scale.
[Dan and Lindsay look at each other fondly and laugh.]
CE: That's amazing! That's like, uh, love letters all over the countr-, world.
Dan: That's right.
Lindsay: Sorta, yeah [smiles].
Dan: That's right. We uh, think local, make love... internationally.
CE: That's great, that's great.
Dan: And by love I mean, you know, the vertical kind.
Lindsay: I'm just shaking my head. [Head shakes, face snickers and smiles.]
Dan: My last name is Smith, in case you were wondering.


CE: And your name and address, uh.... Anyway, so you guys were taking these Polaroids. G-rated Polaroids.
Lindsay: PG.
Dan: Distinctly vertical.
CE: Distinctly vertical. Why did you start taking these Polaroids?
Lindsay: I have this Polaroid that I got for this work thing. I didn't end up using all the film, so I though, you know, why not...
Dan: Shoot the beautiful day...
Lindsay: With my honey dear. Because I hardly have any pictures of him. And it's so much more fun to have instant gratification with Polaroids.
Dan: Polaroid is actually the only type of camera that will I will produce an image in.
CE: So, you don't exist?
Dan: The rest are mirrors. It doesn't show. Garlic, I don't like garlic either.
Lindsay: Yeah, big problem. One time, there was this guy carrying a fence stake. Dan just like, ran in the other direction. It took me another day to realize. Stakes, another big phobia for him.
Dan: Unlike my vampire brethren, though, I went crying, like a small dog.
Lindsay: They were tears of blood, so.
CE: Not like, The Band song, "Tears of Rage"?
Dan: Tears of blood.
Lindsay: You know, we had troubles with it. He just can't cry human tears.
Dan: What can you do? It makes me a little anemic sometimes, during those tear-jerker movies. Anemic.
CE: Do you have to like stop yourself from bringing it up in interviews [when they ask,] "Is there something you need to tell us about yourself?"
Dan: I'm just like, "Guys, do you have a transfusion bank?" And they're like, "We do." And I'm like, "That's great."Ah [sigh], kind of a non-sequitor conversation.

Lindsay: Oh, it's like so many other things. Do you tell people these things?. How will you be judged. And you know, you're born a vampire. It's not a choice that you make.
Dan: No. It was more injected into me by a blood-thirsty siren.
Lindsay: Again. did you choose that? Did you wake up one day and say, "I'm going to be a vampire"?
Dan: Actually, I did go to Ryle's that night, and that's where it happened.
CE: The sirens at Ryle's. it's not just middle-aged people drinking cocktails, trying to dance.
Lindsay: Here, across Beacon Hill, it's all the more poignant to be talking about vampires. Where are their rights?
CE: Where are their rights? Don't they work in those big structures [skyscrapers] over there? But they bite and claw into other countries and other banks.
Dan:They suckle the fortunes- internationally. No longer jugular. It's multinationally-jugular.
Lindsay: My, the world has really changed!

III. Politics (good and bad), Jobs, and an Ugly Bug with a Pretty Name

CE: So, how old are you folks?
Dan: I'm 30.
Lindsay: I'm 23.
Dan: Robbing -the- cradle.
CE: So, you met at Brown? You were a grad student?
Dan: I was a medical student. yeah...
CE: Lindsay, did you consider Clark? I went to Clark, and they have a big International Development department.
Lindsay:I didn't know what I was going to study when I entered college. I thought I was going to do, potentially theater.
Dan: She was a child star. Google her!
Lindsay: You can google me.
CE: Google you. I don't know your last name... Lindsay Smith.
Lindsay: I did a couple plays as a child and a couple independent films as a teenager. But I ended up getting more interested in non-profit work and social justice work. Then I got into international development. But yeah, I hear Clark is really cool for that stuff.
Dan: She hasn't been bitter one day since.
Lindsay: About not be an actress?
Dan: About social justice.
Lindsay: No, no, never bitter. Not me.
Dan: Neither one of us. We're the cheery Bostonians.
CE: The "Cheery Bostonians," right here!
Lindsay: They should just call me Lindsay Bitters.
CE: Lindsay Bitters, that sounds like a drink. Can I have a Lindsay Bitters, on the rocks?
Dan: Lindsay Bitters...
CE: Which indie films were you in?
Lindsay: Well, they were indie, you know. They were film festival films. There was one called...
Dan: DVD stock [type films].
CE: My friends just made a movie like that. They're trying to get festivals and/or DVD distribution. Still Green. It's a coming-of-age, last summer before college, summer house at the beach film. Shit is heavy.
Dan: Oh, yeah. This move is called Cicadas.
CE: Beautiful sounding... is it about sitting on the porch and listening to cicadas?
Lindsay: It's about how sometimes in moments of great pain, you can come out of your shell with the help of good friends.
Dan: And become a horrible creature who makes awful noises...
Lindsay: and then suddenly dies...
Dan: and then usually dies by crashing into a window.
Lindsay: It kind of takes the first half of the metaphor. Coming out of a shell. Discard the being alive for but one day, and then dying.
Dan: It's kind of like the butterfly metaphor, the cocoon. But with you know, with giant insect eyeballs and a giant awful body, and not beautiful wings. [All laugh and squirm at the image].
CE: It must have looked beautiful, visually.
Dan: But, it's not true. none of it's true. She's much more of a mariposa than a cicada. I'll tell you now!
Lindsay: It's a cool movie. The same director just made a movie called Jumping Off Bridges. It's screening all over the place, so that's exciting.


CE: Dan, are you doing Doctors Without Borders?
Dan: No, i work with Partners in Health, which is the local game in town. It's the Boston-based Doctors Without Borders. I volunteer with them because I work at the hospital that they're affiliated with. I work mostly in Mexico. In Chiapas. Actually, I just came from Harvard, at the Rockefeller Center for Latin American Studies.
Lindsay: He went to a twalk.
Dan: I went to a talk with John Ross, who is one of the premier left press journalists. He was also a beat poet back in the day. He read poetry and he tells his journalistic tales much like a round table, fire side chat. Or more like a story telling. It was actually a lot of fun. Even though I agree with a lot of what he said, at the q&a session, I asked him a question I knew would be very hard for him to answer: "What are the downsides of all the people you are saying are so good?" Like Lopez Obrador or the Zapatistas. He couldn't answer.
Lindsay: He couldn't answer? I mean, if you're look at individuals, you have to able to analyze the individuals...
Dan: Good and bad...
Lindsay: Well, rigorously, let's just say, rigorously.
Dan: I would personally not join a revolution unless they're going to say, "Okay these are both our goods and our downs." Because once focus only on the good, then you just end up in the same oooollld shit.
Lindsay: Ideologoical , dogmatic rut!
Dan: It happened to the Stalinists... it happened to the Mexican Revolution.
Lindsay: It happens to every good idea, if you don't watch out.
CE: You need good, old self-criticism, right?
Dan: You do. you need to be like, "This is what we're doing well. This is what we need to do better." With a lot of these things, they're up against much, they don't [think they] have a space for self-criticism.
Lindsay: I think it depends who you're talking about. I don't know about Obrador. i think He's pretty much like, "Get in the tent, play my guitar, sing some songs, wave my flag". I think some of the Zapatistas have more self-reflexion. They have really big encuentros, they also have meetings, set priorities. It's about consent these days.
Dan: I would like to see more, personally.
CE: There's a writer, Vijay Prashad. He teaches at trinity in Hartford. He's written a few books. The one I'm reading, The Karma of Brown Folk is about South Asians in America... Their immigrant story, essentially. The ways it's been politicized by various parties. For good and bad. He wrote a new book, The Darker Nations, and it's a look at six developing countries and their plights after colonization. In kind of a self-critical ways, looking at the ways they've tried to gain independence and develop nationhood, in good ways and in ways he's critical about. And this guy! The great thing about Prashad is he's so well-read, passionate-- it's criticism, but it's still very passionate criticism-- and he take on various sides and points of view. It's very enjoyable reading.
Lindsay: I love reading about that.
Dan: South Asia, colonization...
Lindsay: And the end of colonialism and the post-colonial period. It's a period I always find interesting. It shapes so much of everything today. It's so important to understand.

Dan: Just to bring it down to Mexico again, because I know more about that.
Lindsay: Because that's what you know! [Smiles at him, laughs knowingly].
Dan: That's what i know. I'm a one trick pony. So I'm reading right now, actually, an account of one of the soldiers that went with Cortez to Tenochitlan, to defeat, or conquer, Montezuma. The amazing thing about it is, the guy is probably a pretty straight forward Joe, back in the days of Spanish Conquest. His details are from the trenches looking up. It was amazing. You know, [he wrote things like,] "Cortez lost his sandal during the fight, and couldn't recover it." And the language going around, as they're marching to the great capital of Mexico, is one of moral high ground: "We've come here to civilize you; " "We've come here to stop the sacrificing of human beings;" "We've come here to give you the true lord Jesus Christ."

But really, they're in it for the gold. They're there for the cash and the ladies. You know what's so interesting about it, too? Montezuma was such an imperialist himself. That's so interesting. Empire conquering empire. That's how they were able to do it. When they marched on, they were able to get the help of the people in Campeche and Tabasco, and they were able to get the help of all those tribes that were like, "We hate Montezuma."

Lindsay: Yeah, they gave him all their best food and best skins and animals and killed their virgins.
Dan: It reminded me a lot of the language that Bush sold to the world to march on Iraq. This moral high ground talk. Which, in some contexts, just as in Christianity, has some truth to some people. But it's for the gold. Black gold [oil]. It's just so amazing: "Let us learn what history teaches. History teaches." Eh, it doesn't teach. We don't listen.
CE: We don't listen.

IV. Time to Take in the Night

CE: This is so funny, these are three of my old friends, just walking by...
Lindsay: want to go talk to them?
CE: I'm not terribly close to them.
Dan: Want a picture of them, the three of them walking by?
CE: I'll just call them in a minute. I'll keep it up there [pointing to my head]. And I'll write some story about, walking, walking away... in my life, their lives, our lives.
Lindsay: We need to go watch this movie.
CE: Oh, what are you watching?
Lindsay: We might The Namesake, which i think at 7:30.
CE: Have you read the book? I hear it's good.
Lindsay: I read the book, it's good.
Dan: South Asian [stuff], that's her.
CE: I should get your email so that i could email you the interview and email the link, hoping that this was loud enough to be recorded.
Dan: Yeah...

We start our "see you later's", then they're gone, and I'm taking in the early afternoon, the conversation, and the proof [pointing to my head]. Sure, there's tape, sure there's Polaroids, but I'll keep it in my head... the experience. I'll keep it in my head as a distinctly vertical experience.

That guy who likes to talk with people
(Shahin/ conversations, etc./ CE).

Alex Paik: Painter of (Post)-Ironic Sincerity

Two words for you: Alex Paik. Two more: video games. Another pair, for good measure: abstract art. What am I throwing your way? Well, a curve ball from Philadelphia. Alex Paik is an artist whose work I found while looking

Mike Tyson's Punchout (TKO)
acrylic on canvas
66 x 60 inches
2007

closely at the recent New American Paintings (Issue Number 69). I was standing in the Harvard Coop, looking semi-serious and inquisitive (I suppose that's the look suggested for that place), when the issue caught my eye.
I opened it up to find some fascinating work being done in the Mid-Atlantic states, per the regional focus the magazine gives for each issue. Then I saw the work of one Alex Paik.

The paintings were quite striking: their colors suggested humbleness, their subject matter offered up humor and something beyond irony or nostalgia, and their stand-out quality as a series made me feel like he was on to something. He was, and is. In his artsist statement, I heard a voice with refreshing doses of intelligence, irony, sincerity, reverence, and humor. Often times, artists, or the critics and theorists who place them on/bring them down from pedestals, have one or a couple of these qualities, but it's rare-- heck, it's really something else-- when they're combined. In simple terms, Alex Paik provides us with abstract paintings whose literal source material comes from video games. However, there's more going on in his work than the obvious. To find out more about how those six words from the beginning of this introduction work together, or to hear more from the artist himself, read on. You could also visit his website at www.alexpaik.com. It will make you smile. Smiling is good; as Alex would say: "Besides, happy is the new sad".

* The interview is from emails back and forth between Alex and myself over the last week. All images are made by Alex Paik, and have been used by permission from the artist. They can be found at www.alexpaik.com. *

CE: How did you wind up doing what you are known for, painting? How many years have you been doing it? Does it satisfy any childhood or adult passions, desires, or interests?

AP: I actually thought I was going to be a computer programmer for a while. I took a bunch of computer programming classes during high school, but decided during my senior year that I wanted to do hand drawn animation. (I had even declared my major as Computer Science on all of my college applications) Once I got to Penn State, I had to take beginning drawing and painting classess in order to build up a portfolio so that I could transfer to animation school. Then a couple things happened: I got rejected from CalArts (which was where I wanted to go for animation), I realized more and more that if I continued down the animation course I would be a cog in a large machine spending days animating like 2 seconds of a leaf blowing in the background or something, and I also began to really love the fine arts and the ways that it made me think. So I finished college with a Fine Arts degree, went to grad school, and have been doing it since.

Art is really satisfying to me because it is a game of incomplete knowledge, a game of questions. When I was in college, I had all of these heavy handed agendas with my work, but I’ve been realizing more and more that there are never really any answers and I really like that. Even in specific paintings I can decide that a color “works” next to another color or I can like the relationships between different shapes and lines, but in the end there’s no way to say authoritatively what is good or bad. Even a painting made up of all the “wrong” moves can end up being really rich and interesting. It’s all about the relationships between things (the various relationships within the painting, the size of the painting, the materials, the historical context, the physical context) coming together in an interesting way. And those relationships in turn make you feel/think about different things that are specific to your context, and I love feeling my brain jump around from idea to idea while looking at art, listening to music, and even thinking about my own work.

CE: Your artist statement discusses pop art and Abstract Expressionism. These seem to be obvious influences on your work, or at least schools of art with whom your pieces speak. Which artists of either period do you most connect with?

AP: I’ve been really into Lichtenstein recently. He has a great deadpan humor in his work but he manages to still come across as respecting those he is making fun of. His paintings are also really beautiful I think.

CE: Tell me about a few pieces of his you enjoy. Which pieces floor you? Maybe one that is more deadpan, one that is more melodramatic (thinking of the "I'm drowning, Brad/I love you" ones), one that is more beautiful (thinking of the nude women playing volleyball or the abstract expressionistic strokes over his dots). I find your reading of Lichtenstein to echo or mirror the way someone may read you. That's a compliment. A teacher-mentor once told me, so-and-so does not copy x, y,z. if they're good, they're a "student of" x,y,z. They make their own thing, all the while being "in conversation" with their mentor.

AP: “Still Life with Gold Fish” is a favorite of mine that is at the Philadelphia Museum. I love how overt and dumb the reference is to Matisse’s “Interior with Bowl and Red Fish” (http://www.abcgallery.com/M/matisse/ smatisse49.jpg). And if you don’t get the reference, he hammers you over the head by putting not one, but two Matisse drawings in the background! It’s hilarious! But I also think it is a really elegant painting. I really like how the way he alternated the diagonal lines in and around the fish bowl makes the bowl flatten out and become a pattern.

“Little Big Painting” is at the Whitney. Again, he takes a really stupid reference and turns it into a great painting. He takes the really masculine gesture of the brushstroke from the AbEx painters and completely drains it of its authority. But also by flattening the brushstrokes out and stylizing it the way he does, you find all of these beautiful linear passages within each brushstroke.

“Drowning Girl” is at the MoMA. What the girl is saying (“I don’t care! I’d rather sink than call Brad for help”) becomes for me a critique of the idea of artist as authoritative author that was so important to Modernists. The idea that artists are some sort of cowboys that go out on their own to forge their own paths independent of what came before them is ludicrous. He understood that art, even though it is often made in private, is still an active dialogue with both your contemporaries and predecessors. In an ironic way, though, Lichtenstein simultaneously used an aesthetic that removed the idea of the author to create paintings that are instantly recognizable as Lichtensteins.

CE: You seamlessly weave a humor, appreciation, critique, and passion for contemporary art and pop culture in your artist statement. How have you come to these ways of relating to the field?

AP: I think that’s just naturally the way I am. One second I will be snidely making fun of something, and the next second I’ll be passionately defending it. I’m always trying to see both sides of things. It’s a blessing and a curse, I guess.

CE: Do you find it the mixture of sentiments helpful or problematic?

AP: I think my work might come across as on the fence sometimes, like I can’t decide where to be. Either people like that or they don’t. On my good days, I don’t care if people think that. On my bad days, I get really despondent about that and start doubting myself.

CE: Your work is informed by a unique color palette. Overall, the colors appear soothing. Yet, perhaps there is a tension in certain paintings, when color is introduced. For example, the red in "Super Mario World (Untitled)", or the yellow in " Question Mark Block". They seem to pop and call attention to the "objects" they represent. What are key elements in choosing colors for each canvas? Do you have certain notions of color by which you prefer to work?

Super Mario Bros. 2 Title Screen (Arabesques)
acrylic on canvas
54 x 54 inches
2007

AP: I used to joke and say that “It’s Easter every day in my studio.” I think the color choices come across as childlike and even naïve, but I really get off on cutesy things like that and hopefully the work is good enough that people don’t roll their eyes TOO much at the colors. Just a little bit.

Question Mark Block
acrylic on canvas
30 x 30 inches
2007

I also like muted or pastel colors because I like how they relate to each other, the space in the paintings ends up being a bit murkier, less defined. A couple months ago I put a couple black shapes in one of my paintings and was really taken aback - I realized that I hadn’t used black for almost a year! The black never actually made it into the final painting, but it was funny nonetheless. More recently I’ve been trying to bring in some more keyed up colors to liven things up a bit.

A gallerist told me that she didn’t have the normal gag reflex that she usually has when she sees pastel pinks and purples like in my paintings. I was really happy about that.

CE: You approach some of the most classic video games of our generation. Mike Tyson TKO, Super Mario, even Ms. Pac Man. How did you choose these games? Have you explored other video games? Does the canonical disposition of these games, or the fact that they are well-loved, make the painting process stressful? Do you ever doubt your choices in representation? Conversely, what excited you about the games to explore them over and over, bringing out different elements in each painting?

AP: I, like a lot of our generation, grew up playing the NES and it was a really important part of my childhood. I chose those games mostly because those were the canonical games and I was trying to go through all of the most popular ones as I started this series (which was about a year ago). I’ve also used Powerpuff Girls, Pokemon, Hello Kitty, and other cartoons (like Voltron and Transformers) as sources but definitely not as much as the Nintendo ones. I am trying more consciously to bring a wider range of subject matter into the paintings. By wider range, I mean SNES and other cartoons -- maybe even Sega [gasp]-- but when I first started the series I was just going with my first instinct and those were the ones that came up.


In the beginning, I think I leaned a little more toward “representation” in that it was easy to recognize what game I was using as a source if you had played the games as much or more than I had, but as I keep working I’ve been trying to abstract the source material more and more so that in paintings like "Blades of Steel (Untitled)" and "Super Mario World (Untitled)", it’s a lot harder to tell where it came from. In retrospect, I think I was using the iconic status of the images more as a crutch, but I needed it to generate the work at the time.

I also like the source material because it kind of gives people that don’t know much about art a way to relate to the work. They can be like, “Oh! I see it!” and be happy and I can just affirm that and be done with it. That way they don’t leave thinking that the work is too obtuse. In a similar fashion, it sort of deflates itself to elitists because the source material is kind of dumb.

Blades of Steel (Untitled)

acrylic on canvas
66 x 60 inches
2007

In the end, though, my sources are the generators of interesting shapes for me to play with, and I think the way that I reduce them and place them in the paintings and the way the colors interact with each other are as important, if not more, than the sources themselves. I definitely don’t want people to say “Oh, he paints video games” or whatever. I’d rather them say, “Oh, he paints video games, but turns them into these beautiful abstract paintings.”

CE: Have you ever had an unfortunate or unsettling reading of your work? Are there any criticisms which you are annoyed by?

AP: In my last show, someone wrote at the end of their review something like: “Ultimately, a pixel is just a pixel. It’s not substantial.” I guess they thought my subject matter wasn’t important enough. Maybe I should start a series of paintings about life. Or death. Or the living dead.

CE: If you could curate a group show (including your own work), which other artists would you choose to have in the show? Which pieces?

AP: If I was given the opportunity, I would put all of my underrepresented friends into the show.

Regarding Books, Music and Some Things Philly (with returns to "art")

CE: Are you familiar with the band that only plays songs from Super NES games? I saw them in September (my friend's band Family Junction opened up for them) and they were great, albeit a little over the top.

AP: I think you are talking about The Advantage. I think they are fun (I’ve never seen them live, but I imagine that would be a high energy show), but I don’t think they ever get beyond being a gimmick.

CE: Have you collaborated with writers or musicians? Are you interested in the possibility of collaborating?

AP: I was actually in a band for about a year right after grad school called “Nouveau Riche.” My best memories of being in the band was when the three guys who played instruments would get together and jam (I played guitar). The bassist and I also recorded a fake EP that never got finished. But I really liked that collaborative atmosphere of making music together. The grind of playing show after show definitely was not for me, though, and I eventually had to leave because of that and also because I wasn’t painting enough.

I think collaborating would be fun, but I need to be able to do my thing as well.

CE: Would you ever put your work on a t-shirt? In an ad?

AP: Sure.

CE: Do you listen to music when you paint? Which kinds, or which albums?

AP: I listen to anything. I really like Marissa Nadler’s new album and also The Besnard Lakes’s new album. Every year or so I’ll go on a huge classical kick and listen to all the classical music I have. I think I have about 200 cds worth.

CE: What is the last song that grabbed you?

AP: I didn’t think this was their best album, but I love “Phantom Limb” by the Shins. For the record, I hate Zach Barf (sic). I’ve also been into that ELO song, “Sweet Talkin’ Woman,” since they just came out with that Out of the Blue reissue.

Oh, and I just heard that new M.I.A. song, “Bird Flu” which is pretty cool.

CE: Would you want a band to play at an opening of yours? Would you do an album cover, or let them use one of your paintings for a cover/artwork?


AP: Sure, that would be fun to have a band that I really like to play at an opening. Maybe Spoon or Camera Obscura or the Apples in Stereo. I think it’d be cool to do album covers, but I’m not much of a designer (I did the album cover for a band I was in and I really struggled with it and was not really happy with the end result). I would not want one of my paintings as a cover because I think the size of the paintings is really important.

CE: Do certain songs or albums inspire you to visualize certain spaces, landscapes, characters, worlds?

AP: I don’t think they describe specific spaces for me, but definitely moods. I think I’m trying to make paintings somewhere between The Pipettes, Camera Obscura, the Shins, and Spoon.

CE: For those playing at home, who are The Pipettes, and what is so wonderful about them?

I think somehow the Pipettes go beyond their gimmickiness. Maybe it’s that slight hint of riot girrrl in their voices, maybe it’s the strong harmonies and melodies, I’m not exactly sure. But for me they somehow add something else to the table. And their songs are just too damn catchy to ignore. They also have a great consistent image - they all wear polka dot dresses and have choreographed dances for all of their songs live (See: “Your Kisses Are Wasted On Me” video on YouTube).

CE: Are you reading any good books these days? What is so gripping about the book(s)?

AP: I just finished American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America, by Chris Hedges. It was pretty interesting to read especially in the recent political climate. It was also refreshing to read something by a professed Christian that didn’t fall into the American Christian stereotype. I also read Hilary Spurling’s Matisse biography which was fun to read but I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone unless they were super into Matisse.

CE: What makes you super into Matisse?

AP: I think Matisse had a fantastic sense of color and there is also a great playfulness in his work, especially in the cutouts. His paintings have an effortless grace to them and still seem fresh to me (my favorite room at the MoMA is the Matisse room). Nothing in his best work seems forced or overworked, qualities that I avoid like the plague in my own work. There is kind of a Neverlandish quality to him - his work seems eternally youthful.

CE: Are you a fan of his cut-outs?

AP: I love his cutouts. As he got older, I think he really let himself go and used the cutouts as playgrounds for his imagination. (I think the biography even mentions him covering his walls with his cutouts to look like he was in an abstract ocean). The boyishness that I love about his earlier work is taken so much further in the cutouts.

CE: Speaking of boyishness and youth, I was in Philadelphia in 2004, and they had the Yoshitomo Nara exhibit at the Philadelphia Institute of Contemporary Art ? Did you see it? Does Nara's mixture of sentiments and aesthetics interest you?

AP: Yeah, I saw that show. I really like a lot of his work, I think it is really beautifully made. Sometimes he gets a little too into the teenage “fuck you” sort of thing for my tastes, but in general I really respect him.

CE: I'm in Philadelphia for 3 days. I know about the Philly Art Museum, the Medical Science Museum, and a few good places to eat Philly Cheese Steak. Tell me five more places to go, things to do, secret spots to explore.

AP:
1) Sabrina’s: best brunch in town.

2) The Dolphin: A dive bar that features topless dancing to 80s power ballads.

3) The Kimmel Center: The Philadelphia Orchestra is one of the best in the world. More people should know about classical music, in my opinion.

4) The Barnes Foundation: OK, actually that’s outside of Philly, but it’ll be coming to Philly soon. Great collection of Post-Impressionist work. They have a lot of great Matisses. And a lot of shitty Soutines.

5) Vintage: this wine bar that has a happy hour with inexpensive but really tasty wines.

CE: What is the last thing you laughed or smiled about?

AP: We’ve just discovered that our cat, Wasabi, will stand up on his hind legs and give you a weird head-butt kiss when you greet him. It’s pretty great.

Super Mario Bros. 2 (Mountain of Sound)

acrylic on canvas
60 x 60 inches
2007

Amy Steinnagel, Abby Ross, Cody Halcox, and Random Acts of Kindness

Hot Chocolate, Straight from Eastern Tennessee.

This all started with hot chocolate. Last Tuesday, I was walking along the BU region of Commonwealth Avenue, daydreaming about being in California, in Cleveland, even, with a good friend. Essentially, I was wanting to be away from the cold air cutting against my skin, and the distant fellow city dwellers, who seemed to be, in the words of Timothy Levitch, "running toward their destinations and away from themselves." Then I looked up and saw two warm faced, rosy cheeked folks with cups and a warm thermos. They asked if I wanted hot chocolate. Refreshingly floored by the possibility, I accepted. Then we started talking, and they agreed to share some of their stories. A warm afternoon in subzero weather, midwinter blues was abated by something called random acts of kindness.

I should note that I am not a religious person, in the "capital R" or "lowercase R" of the term. Also, what you read below would hopefully not be critiqued as preaching or soapboxing. Keeping in mind the blog's mission, I am here to offer moments into people's lives, to bask in conversation, to voice people's convictions with respect. As this is an evolving platform, constructive comments are welcomed, and when appropriate, should address the editor/interviewer, and not necessarily the interviewees.

Without further adieu, three members on behalf of a mission group from Roane State Community College's Baptist Collegiate Ministry. From Harrimon, Tennessee, to a room in a church on Commonwealth Ave., Boston.

Interviewer: Shahin I. Beigi
Interviewees: Amy Steinnagel, Abby Ross, and Cody Halcox.


CE: It is Wednesday, Tuesday, March 6, Marsh Chapel, Boston University. Outside, you guys were giving hot chocolate. What was the idea behind that?

Cody Halcox: Random acts of kindness. Cuz it was a really cold day, and it would be like givin' someone a cold glass of water on a hot day (affirming tones from group).

Amy Steinnagel: Yeah, we're here from Tennessee and this is our spring break trip. It's kind of like a mission trip. We're just doing random things throughout the week. We're going to Chinatown after this to teach little kids how to speak English, stuff like that. But you know, east Tennessee is a lot different than Boston, so what we're going to try to do is also see colleges in Boston.

CE: Have you met anybody interesting on the street so far, any interesting stories?

Abby Ross: About the second cup of chocolate we gave out, this one lady was like, "Why are you doing this? you know, this is so nice." She was like, "God bless you, you guys. You know that was so awesome." She just all started crying, she's like, "That is so nice, what a refreshing idea, you know, doing random acts of kindness like that, thank you so much!"

CE: The surprising this is just that, uh, Boston, it's not so common. I mean if you go looking for it, definitely. There's communities where people give. In those specific areas, people will seek your guidance and comfort and stuff. But, outside of that, I feel like a lot of Boston has been, "cold"? I mean, it's very much a city of surfaces, and people kind of being away from each other, and I personally have been trying to infuse some sort of community in there by doing this sort of thing. It was great to see you guys do this random acts of kindness. Do you folks do that in Tennessee, or is there something similar? How does your relationship with the community work there?

Abby: I know that random acts of kindness goes for different kinds of projects that we do. we've been trying to start up more mission opportunities back home. We go to nursing homes. We try to do stuff back at school. On Wednesdays, we feed our students [any Roane State students], they can come to our building and get lunch for two dollars every Wednesday. BCM [Baptist College Ministry] is always open. If people need to talk, or pray, or just come over and have fun and play ping pong, that's the big thing that we do, and just different stuff like that. We've been just trying to get more missions opportunities going, and just about everywhere we go we try to talk to people.

CE: Is this a specific denomination, or is it cross-Protestant, or?

Amy: It is the Baptist Collegiate Ministry. But our students are from every denomination, it's not just made up of Baptist students. We have all types of Christians that come and are apart of this very group.

CE: How long have you folks known each other, personally, and through the church?

Amy: Some of us have been together for two years now and the rest of us, just since this school year. We're kind of growing to be a family, since this past fall.

CE: Five years from now, how do you feel the kind of thing you're doing now will affect yourself or others, because people always remember this kind of compassion and this kind of community?

Amy: You realize, New England is just totally different than Tennesse. I went to school here in Boston and was raised here in Connecticut. In Tennessee, out there there are churches that do ministry work like this all the time. Basically, with these random acts of kindness, it might not turn into a conversation where you know, right now we're talking to you for a very long time. You don't really come across that very often where you actually talk to a person by giving them a cup of hot chocolate, for like hours or anything. I think all of us really believe that, you know, showing the love that we feel from God and from Jesus Christ, by showing people that love, it's kind of like showering seeds and planting seeds, seeds of love. And those seeds of love, they can get uprooted or something like that, but they have been put there. Your question was, "How does this go like five years down the road, these random acts of kindness?" You know, we may never see some of these people again, ever. But, they have experienced love on a very cold day through a simple cup of hot chocolate.

CE: What do you guys like to do as a group, some of the fun things you like to do?

Cody: I like to ride my four wheeler and I like to go fishing and ride around in my bass boat and i like to go deer hunting, or deerhuntin, I like to meet new people. I love the outdoors. I spend a lot of time outdoors, trying to catch fish and just see the country.

Amy: In New England, we're just having fun walking around, and trying not to get hit by cars and stuff like that. Just seeing the city. Tennessee is a lot more outdoorsy, climbings a big thing, hiking is a big thing. I think a lot that we do that's fun together is just hanging out, because when you become a family, you really just love spending time together, whatever you're doing.

Abby: We like to go places together. But when we're at BCM, we play ping pong, we play pool, different things like that. But one thing we really like to do that people wouldn't think is necessarily fun: we like to have bible studies, we like to pray, we like to have that close-knit kind of family situation, so even if we kind of get off subject, we're still talking about God and we still have that, we still have that connection and it's really important. No matter where we are, we could jump in: if we have a question about something, we could talk to each other and just pray with each other, no matter what time and it's really important. That's what we like to do.

CE: That's really beautiful. Being a nonreligious person, I come to the church through literature, through music. There's that Bruce Springsteen song, "Reason to Believe." He keeps saying, "At the end of every hard earned people find some reason to believe." I think it's very important, you know, the version you guys are sharing, the community building, the talking, the interacting and the growing together through focusing, speaking, and doing good work. As opposed to what we see these days: the separating and dividing and all this other stuff.

Amy: One thing you said was, this community that we have. I think so much of religion today is exactly that, it's Religion. It's man-made. We have all these different denominations and all these different, you know, beliefs and everything. So often, and I know myself, because i used to be a "religious person"... I went to church and I didn't really know God, at all. And i know for me, religion is very different from the God that i know. The God that i know loves me, and I feel that in my heart.

CE: I want to hear a fun story about ping pong or bass fishing, just a fun time, a good story.

Cody: Something i like to do is go catfishing. When i do that, i like to try to catch them them ones as long as your leg. me and my friend Nathan, we always go out there, nighttime, cast the line, put up some nasty bait, and we like to hang them big ones and just fight them in. it's like fightin' a seamonster.

CE: Do you eat them?

Cody: I eat the small catfish and the crawfeet, but i don't eat the big catfish cuz they have had more time to get nasty stuff in them like mercury, and radiation, nasty stuff. More fishing questions?

CE: Funny stories?

Cody: Oh yeah, one time me and dad was in his old bass boat. He would do over 70 miles per hour on the water. and there's this yacht that made big waves several feet tall. Me and dad hit that wave, doing bout seventy. We got some good air time. We pulled some dukes of hazard on the water [all laugh]. Yeah, well i guess that's ll i have to say.

Amy: I have a funny story about how to shoot. Up in new england, the only people who have guns are authority figures, you know police and stuff, or criminals, and i was neither. But then in Tennessee, people have been shooting guns, pretty much since they're out of the womb. So one day we were over at a friend's house and he had a rifle and it was unloaded. So it's an unloaded gun,, i was like it's alright, and started waving it around, toting it around because it's an unloaded gun. Everyone starts screaming at me, because apparently there's two rules that you aren't supposed to break, ever, with a gun: always treat a gun like it's a loaded gun, and never shoot, and don't point a gun at something you don't intend to kill. I did both. I actually pointed the gun right at my friend's chest and it was a 12 gauge, which you could pretty much blow a hole through anything. Everyone was freaking out and this stupid Yankee over here is laughing her head off.

But it actually taught me a really good lesson: that me, having no preconceived notion, assuming that an unloaded gun doesn't harm you, had no concept of how dangerous that actually is cuz I've never shot a gun. I know it kills people. They were telling me afterwards how many deaths and accidents because of "unloaded guns," and it brought tears to my eyes to think I literally pointed that thing at my brother-- he's not biologically my brother but he's like my brother-- at my brother's chest...and to think i could have killed him. It made me realize how often so many of us do things that we have no idea how dangerous it really is. That just opened my eyes to other things that we do that are really dangerous, that we have no idea how dangerous it really is.

Cody: The first date me and my girlfriend Jamie ever did. Instead of taking her out to dinner and taking her to watch a movie, like everyone else does, I was, "Hey Jamie, you wanna go ride four wheelers and then shoot guns after that?" She was like, " yeah sure." So we went: rode four wheelers and hit mud holes and I showed her how to drive. Then after that, I had an old lawnmower sitting in the cow pasture. "Jamie honey, we're gonna shoot us a lawn mower!" We just blew that lawnmower to pieces. and she's been the coolest girlfriend ever, and it seems like you know, I've taken her fishing before and, she doesn't do this [ makes a disgusted face] [all laugh] .

Abby: A couple stories we have about playing ping pong at the BCM. We play just about every day. We're each starting basically to get addicted to ping pong. We each have our own paddles that we like to play with, that we've bought ourselves.

CE: Do you have names for them?

Abby: Our friend Adam, he has this ping pong paddle. He loves the Red Sox. He's written on it in permanent marker, with the two sox on one side, and his name on the other.

And then one of our favorite movies we like to joke about all the time is Anchorman. One of the sayings in that, a name from that, is "Brosef," and that's what he's named his ping pong paddle. We kind of name each other, like "Hey Brosef, what are you doin'?"

One thing we like to do is have tournaments for ping pong. Basically, after Noonday-- which is what that meal is called, on Wednesday-- we have our own little tournament, and we make brackets, and all this kind of stuff. It always comes down to basically the same two people every time, and it will be like the most intense game ever, and the same person will win. It's so funny,and [the loser], they'll get so frustrated, and it's like, "It's just ping pong." They'll get frustrated and throw the paddle all over the place, but it's just so funny too see how intense we get over a game of ping pong. It's so funny.

CE: Any fun places in Boston so far? How long you been here? Since Friday?

Cody: We went to Brown Sugar Cafe, a Thai restaurant. It was good. I had seafood, it was great. I love seafood.

Amy: We're kind of on a limited budget, staying at a church. A lot of the meals we've been eating are together, we're just cooking at the church and eat there. But we are going to treat ourselves. On Friday, we're going to be going to the North End. We'll be going to La Familia Giorgio's. It's good, it's good and it's not too expensive either. Of course, we'll be going to Mike's Pastry for some cannoli, because most in our group here have either never heard of cannoli, or never had it.

CE: Thank you so much, and keep enjoy doing these random acts of kindness.